Heat Pumps

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boxerscott
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Heat Pumps

Postby boxerscott » Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:18 pm

So we have a decree from a Politician Nett Zero Carbon 2050 (UK) and to go one better from another Politician 2045 (Scotland) WTF Nett Zero means is that it is anything but "Zero"

Gas boilers redundant 2035.

In terms of powering our homes they want us to use renewables such as Solar, Wind, Hydro, Geo Thermal etc. The unit of choice to replace the old boiler is a heat pump and the Politicians have realised that for Retro Fit and lesser cost, the solution will generally be Air Source heat pump.

To achieve that deadline of 2035 means getting the hairy arsed plumbers, gassies and oil boys up to speed with relatively new technologies so that it will not end up a car crash for the consumer. I fear it will. I am at the end of my working life as a professional plumber, heating installer, boiler repair man, oil, gas, solar thermal, as qualified and inspected (probably more than a Brain Surgeon) as my customers would hope for. I made an enquiry to the MCS to be registered as an industry professional for the installation and repair of heat pumps, it`s not a statutory requirement as is Gassafe or Offtec (in England). Further to that Manufacturers have excellent training academies with online courses and learning with practical hands on opportunities at their centers.

I was not surprised to learn that MCS direct you to one of many certifying accreditation bodies and basically you pay for the privilege of being assessed. £900 for starters, plus £55 per annum thereafter for being a member. Scottish Gov does offer me up to £1000 towards these costs depending on how many units i want assessing for, such as insulation ticket, ASHP ticket, GSHP ticket, Solar Thermal ticket, PV ticket and so on. (Again None of which are Statutory requirements as are all my Gassafe tickets which i pay for annually and every 5 years re training). Reluctantly i probably will apply for the grant as it may have benefits for my self build but will the model work....WIF. Another Green Deal. I will not go into why there are so many disadvantages surrounding the ASHP especially on retro fit. I fear this country is being run by feckless lefty liberal idiots who have left UNI with a degree in Hocus Pocus not knowing if they are a boy or a girl, have eating disorders or not, overburdened with mental health issues and want to control us all with tick box consultation and to be cancelled if we have a different opinion. They can all, Royally, GTF. :wink:
Fiat Panda.
Fiat Scudo (with speedblock, pipe carrier, reversing sensors, reversing camera, tow bar, some new rust and Fake Plumber logo)


started out with nothing, still have most of it left.

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RiceBurner
The Mirthman Prophecy
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Re: Heat Pumps

Postby RiceBurner » Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:16 am

boxerscott wrote:So we have a decree from a Politician Nett Zero Carbon 2050 (UK) and to go one better from another Politician 2045 (Scotland) WTF Nett Zero means is that it is anything but "Zero"

Gas boilers redundant 2035.

In terms of powering our homes they want us to use renewables such as Solar, Wind, Hydro, Geo Thermal etc. The unit of choice to replace the old boiler is a heat pump and the Politicians have realised that for Retro Fit and lesser cost, the solution will generally be Air Source heat pump.

To achieve that deadline of 2035 means getting the hairy arsed plumbers, gassies and oil boys up to speed with relatively new technologies so that it will not end up a car crash for the consumer. I fear it will. I am at the end of my working life as a professional plumber, heating installer, boiler repair man, oil, gas, solar thermal, as qualified and inspected (probably more than a Brain Surgeon) as my customers would hope for. I made an enquiry to the MCS to be registered as an industry professional for the installation and repair of heat pumps, it`s not a statutory requirement as is Gassafe or Offtec (in England). Further to that Manufacturers have excellent training academies with online courses and learning with practical hands on opportunities at their centers.

I was not surprised to learn that MCS direct you to one of many certifying accreditation bodies and basically you pay for the privilege of being assessed. £900 for starters, plus £55 per annum thereafter for being a member. Scottish Gov does offer me up to £1000 towards these costs depending on how many units i want assessing for, such as insulation ticket, ASHP ticket, GSHP ticket, Solar Thermal ticket, PV ticket and so on. (Again None of which are Statutory requirements as are all my Gassafe tickets which i pay for annually and every 5 years re training). Reluctantly i probably will apply for the grant as it may have benefits for my self build but will the model work....WIF. Another Green Deal. I will not go into why there are so many disadvantages surrounding the ASHP especially on retro fit. I fear this country is being run by feckless lefty liberal idiots who have left UNI with a degree in Hocus Pocus not knowing if they are a boy or a girl, have eating disorders or not, overburdened with mental health issues and want to control us all with tick box consultation and to be cancelled if we have a different opinion. They can all, Royally, GTF. :wink:



Sounds to me more like the fiscally corrupt capitalists are digging their hands into the feeding trough as usual and ensuring that there's plenty of short-term profit in the system for shareholders without any thought to long-term stability. As has been the pattern for the last 40 or so years.


Something does have to change in the way that we (humanity) use the resources of the planet, if only for our own well-being (let alone the rest of the populace of the planet)
non quod, sed quomodo

Australia
dobbo
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Re: Heat Pumps

Postby dobbo » Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:26 pm

Boxerscot there's nothing worse than career politicians running the show. They leave school go to uni and become polys with no real life experience and start making the rules for everyone else not necessarily for themselves to follow. It's usual for government to have their finger in the pie and of course your pockets. Experts have warned the ruling class about climate change for 30 years but they (professional liars) knew better or did not suit their agenda but now it's probably too late. Big oil and gas companies and countries pull the strings unfortunately.

England
SP250
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Re: Heat Pumps

Postby SP250 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:30 am

I'll just mention the elephant in the room.

Any heat pump, air source or ground source, will not work in a retro fit without a serious amount of additional capital expense.
Basically the heat differential they generate is small compared to a gas or oil boiler.
And this means to raise the room air temperature to the same level as the exsisting radiator system, you need to double or treble the amount of radiators (or fit underfloor heating which is even more expensive) in each room.

I am still running the victorian engineered gas boiler that was fitted in 1970 when the system was installed.
Quotes for a new replacement condensing boiler are £3500 (because they won't fit it in the same place as the current one) and they only last 6 to 10 years. Which means I'll likely need one or two replacements.
The extra gas I will use because of the old boiler inefficiency will not add up to £3500 (£7000 for two) even if I live another 30 years, which is unlikely.

So I know what I will be doing with government "green" heat pump programmes..........Happy to do it though if Mr Sunak is paying for it all!
John M

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Al
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Location: Devon

Re: Heat Pumps

Postby Al » Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:20 am

Same here, 45year old boiler, only 65% efficient but can still get parts for it unlike new boilers made of cheap metal that are engineered to disintegrate after 8-10 years, with suspended wooden floors and a cellar it would cost a fortune to upgrade my 120 year old house to make any form of heat pump worthwhile, and so many problems from cavity wall insulation about on forums I will give that a miss as well, I agree with using the technology if it’s fitted at build but retro fitting, no thanks.
I will try to source a non condensing boiler before they are phased out completely and hope my local plumber will fit it, all the pipe work and radiators have been upgraded so it should be straight swap.

Al.
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