bottom twitching

[slparry]

Today has been very eventful, went to Machynlleth on my RT, to a repair shop to get a zip fixed on one of my motorbike jackets, fixed at a bargain price Then down to Aberystwyth for an ice cream on the front.

Riding back up the awesome A44, the heat, from being in the top box, had caused the buttons on my bluetooth to detach .... so they're somewhere along the A44 :'(

Turning off the A44 towards Llanidloes and onto the mountain road past Llyn Clwydog to Machynlleth. (the road we used last year on the WW .... the one where we all stopped for the awesome viewpoint looking over

At one point on the little mountain road I noticed a tractor and its driver to the left in a lay by, positioned myself a bit more to the right "just in case" and noticed that there appeared to be a wide stream crossing the road. Didn't really pay it much heed as I was only doing 25 mph due to it being a small road.

Then all hell broke lose, automatic stability lights flashing all over the dash bike lurching all over the place while the fancy traction control electronics did their thing and dealt with the problem...... the problem was .... well what I thought was water wasn't, it was hydraulic oil from the tractor in the layby.... fucking tractor driver didn't think to warn us his tractor had dumped its entire hydraulic load over the road!!!

Walked back to have a "chat" with the tractor driver, he said sorry he was on the phone trying to get help. He seemed surprised when I suggested warning people would be a good idea. Anyway I called the police, to make it safe, who we passed while travelling down to Machynlleth.

I'm fairly sure it was little or no input from me that saved the bike from disaster, and that it was the electronics that saved me and the bike.

Oh and on the way home while travelling through the "Mach Loop" there where two Apache attack choppers either side of me at speed

[fontana]

I'm fairly sure it was little or no input from me that saved the bike from disaster, and that it was the electronics that saved me and the bike.

I wouldn't underestimate your input.
Traction control electronic jiggery pokery only works on the rear wheel.
Oil over the front, and you're as likely to go down as anyone without it.

[boxerscott]

not with all that mass on the front end it won`t

glad it did not end in tears steve

Chris

[Al]

glad it did not end in tears steve

+1

Al.

[Topcat]

That could have made your day, glad all is well.

[GerryB]

Eish !!!!

Scary ......

Glad you saved it ....

Sadly some tractor drivers are as thick as the pig muck they work with ....

[bikemad99]

As are a lot of bikers.

[Boxered]

Bottom twitchy indeed
On the plus side though, you now know that adrenaline is brown

Glad it all ended well.

Steve

[fontana]

How about this for a bum twitching moment.
I bet this rider touched cloth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz7rrQ_Clg8

[slparry]

I'm fairly sure it was little or no input from me that saved the bike from disaster, and that it was the electronics that saved me and the bike.

I wouldn't underestimate your input.
Traction control electronic jiggery pokery only works on the rear wheel.
Oil over the front, and you're as likely to go down as anyone without it.

as much as I appreciate the implied compliment to my abilities .... I genuinely was a mere spectator... .and a scared one at that.

Modern BMW's with Automatic Stability Control are bristling with sensors that measure temperature, wheel speed, lean angles, yaw, pitch and a ton of other inputs.

The system reacts in milliseconds to respond to pre programmed abnormal situations, the onboard system patches into the electronic suspension, the brakes, the throttle, the ignition advance system etc.

When in rain mode for example the suspension is softened, the power delivery is softened, the traction systems cut in sooner and with more effect and the abs system is more active. To give an idea of how it integrates, if you're moving along and hit the brakes, before the Canbus has lit the brake light it's sent a signal to close the oil valves in the suspension to reduce dive.

Automatic Stability Control doesn't just reduce rear wheel power it controls a lot of suspension, brake, throttle, power settings to aid bringing the plot to a more helpful conclusion.

Don't make the mistake of thinking it's just a blunt on off power switch

[fontana]

Yeah that's as maybe, but I'm still not convinced.
The only way to get a definitive answer is to ride two bikes (one with rider aids and one without), through a big puddle of oil.
I maintain that once that front wheel gets soaked in oil, even with rider aids, it will just slide away.
If it doesn't, then I think it's more a matter of luck and skill, than electronic gizmo's.
The definitive proof of rider and safety aids working, would be a reduction in motorcycle crashes.
At the end of the day, that's what it's all about, and as far as I know, motorcycle collisions are on the increase.

[slparry]

Yeah that's as maybe, but I'm still not convinced.
The only way to get a definitive answer is to ride two bikes (one with rider aids and one without), through a big puddle of oil.
I maintain that once that front wheel gets soaked in oil, even with rider aids, it will just slide away.
If it doesn't, then I think it's more a matter of luck and skill, than electronic gizmo's.
The definitive proof of rider and safety aids working, would be a reduction in motorcycle crashes.
At the end of the day, that's what it's all about, and as far as I know, motorcycle collisions are on the increase.

so even if a rider and bike passed your oil test you'd put it down to luck, whereas if it didn't it would be proof it didn't work ?

My 330Ci is bristling with similar electronics, and is very difficult to drive quickly with asc turned off

[fontana]

so even if a rider and bike passed your oil test you'd put it down to luck, whereas if it didn't it would be proof it didn't work ?

No.
If the rider aid bike stayed upright and the non rider bike went down, I would of course accept that the former does work, but at the moment there is no research that proves anything.
OK so in the incident you had, explain the process of electrical processes that intervened to save you.

[slparry]

so even if a rider and bike passed your oil test you'd put it down to luck, whereas if it didn't it would be proof it didn't work ?

No.
If the rider aid bike stayed upright and the non rider bike went down, I would of course accept that the former does work, but at the moment there is no research that proves anything.
OK so in the incident you had, explain the process of electrical processes that intervened to save you.

As I understand it the electronics sensed an out of programmed situation and altered the suspension, brakes, power in order to "guide" the machine back to a pre programmed situation

[fontana]

As I understand it the electronics sensed an out of programmed situation and altered the suspension, brakes, power in order to "guide" the machine back to a pre programmed situation

None of which would make any difference if the front got plastered in oil.
In that situation, a non driven free spinning wheel is going to slide.
I think there are un realistic expectations with rider aids, and people often just assume that because they are there, they alone are responsible for preventing worse case scenario.
Traction control does have advantages.
Preventing wheel spin under power is one reason high sides are so rare these days, but we must remember that no amount of rider aids can prevent loss of traction on the front, unless one day we see two wheel drive developed.
As I said, the only way to know for sure would be to carry out a test in a controlled environment, like you often see with ABS.
One bike with rider aids, the other without, both fitted with out riggers for safety, and both ridden over an oily surface.
If after that, the bike with, is more stable and controlled, then yeah, fair enough but without hard evidence, it's all guess work.