RoSPA / IAM Discussion thread.

[Herb]

discussion about 'advanced training'.

[fontana]

Waving clipboards and a sea of dayglo
Oh Joy

[Herb]

Waving clipboards and a sea of dayglo
Oh Joy

Pop along, you might learn something?!

[Edited to correct spelling, apologies for offending the forum spelling police!]

[Britisherspy]

Our ROSPA group is fantastic, a mix of trackday nutters and very fast road riders, not much Hi vis or BS.

Lichfield Bikers.

[The Teutonic Tangerine]

Waving clipboards and a sea of dayglo
Oh Joy

I must admit that I have no desire to become RosPA Qualified - I would however say that over the past few years I have been riding with a small but active club and we have 6 or 7 RosPa qualified riders and one instructor in the club- and whilst they don't comment (unless you are dangerous or stupid) your riding does improve from just riding with them in a group. Most noticeable for me is that my brake pads now last about three times as long as they did and that's not because we are a slow group. We did ask once what the leader thought of us as a group when he was leading us on a guided ride out in Normandy - his comment was that it was clear that we were very used to group riding and the marker system and that we had actually completed the ride over an hour quicker than normal which was remarkable especially as it had been a wet day. I can only put that down to some of the good stuff rubbing off on the rest of us.

[Herb]

The image that advanced riders / riding has amuses me. People think it's motorcycling with the fun taken out, but the opposite is true. If you learn to position properly and handle your machine appropriately you can get so much more out of rides. Most of the people in my group have been riding for decades and want to help others (particularly young people if we can get them) get the same pleasure from biking whilst reducing risk. We have former police riders, racers, trials riders and at least one Moto-gymkhana rider (who's slow speed handling skills have to be seen to be believed). A lot of experience to draw from.

Anyone in the general Coventry / Midlands area that fancies coming along, you will be made welcome.

[fontana]

The image that advanced riders / riding has amuses me. People think it's motorcycling with the fun taken out, but the opposite is true. If you learn to position properly and handle your machine appropriately you can get so much more out of rides. Most of the people in my group have been riding for decades and want to help others (particularly young people if we can get them) get the same pleasure from biking whilst reducing risk. We have former police riders, racers, trials riders and at least one Moto-gymkhana rider (who's slow speed handling skills have to be seen to be believed). A lot of experience to draw from..

Sorry, but some time ago, I went along to a local IAM group after a friend encouraged me, and it really was motorcycling with the fun taken out.
Basically, most of them were condescending sanctimonious pricks.
I've nothing against improving riding skills.
The problem I encountered have with the I - AM's is that most of them have a hugely elevated opinion of their own riding skills, but most of them are average at best.
They try to create this mystique around what they do by calling it "advanced" but it isn't really.
The word advanced they use in order to appear superior and better than you, but It's just basic common sense.
Riding to the prevailing conditions at the appropriate speed, reading the road and positioning yourself accordingly'
Things that a competent rider should be doing anyway.
A Police rider once told me that the IAM are a nice bunch of people, but they are to the Police system of riding, what the St. Johns ambulance brigade are to the emergency medical services.

[Herb]

The image that advanced riders / riding has amuses me. People think it's motorcycling with the fun taken out, but the opposite is true. If you learn to position properly and handle your machine appropriately you can get so much more out of rides. Most of the people in my group have been riding for decades and want to help others (particularly young people if we can get them) get the same pleasure from biking whilst reducing risk. We have former police riders, racers, trials riders and at least one Moto-gymkhana rider (who's slow speed handling skills have to be seen to be believed). A lot of experience to draw from..

Sorry, but some time ago, I went along to a local IAM group after a friend encouraged me, and it really was motorcycling with the fun taken out.
Basically, most of them were condescending sanctimonious pricks.
I've nothing against improving riding skills.
The problem I encountered have with the I - AM's is that most of them have a hugely elevated opinion of their own riding skills, but most of them are average at best.
They try to create this mystique around what they do by calling it "advanced" but it isn't really.
The word advanced they use in order to appear superior and better than you, but It's just basic common sense.
Riding to the prevailing conditions at the appropriate speed, reading the road and positioning yourself accordingly'
Things that a competent rider should be doing anyway.
A Police rider once told me that the IAM are a nice bunch of people, but they are to the Police system of riding, what the St. Johns ambulance brigade are to the emergency medical services.

So I presume you won't be dropping by on Sunday?

[Herb]

A Police rider once told me that the IAM are a nice bunch of people, but they are to the Police system of riding, what the St. Johns ambulance brigade are to the emergency medical services.

Your police rider obviously didn't encounter the 'condescending sanctimonious pricks' that you encountered then?

It's a fair comparison. RoSPA, IAM and St. John's are all charities with the same brief. They all want to teach skills that save lives.

My son did his work based defibrillation course with St. John's. (he is the manager of a sports centre). He was recently given a commendation for saving the life of a guy who had a heart attack playing football. He's not a paramedic, but the guy who's children would be fatherless without the skills taught by St. Johns isn't complaining.

Fontana, if your interested in coming along and you're in the area, you are more than welcome. I'll be there to greet you and make a brew. If you don't want to come along, that's fine too. No one is forcing you. If you have a discussion you wish to make about the subject in general, start another thread.

[fontana]

If you have a discussion you wish to make about the subject in general, start another thread.

You are absolutely right and I apologize.
I'll bow out of this one.

[dave the german]

The tour leader on the last World of BMW Tour I did last year was A RoSPA instructor - he held the highest civilian riding qualification and I have say it was a joy following him - I learnt so much. Years ago I worked for Star Rider and completed their Gold advanced course along with a lot of our instructors. One instructor passed the IAM test and failed the Star Rider test. His comments were not very complimentary towards IAM and I have heard similar remarks. I haven't heard anything bad about RoSPA. Bit of a generalisation I know but I would be attending if it were closer and I would like to take the RoSPA test if I could only find time!!!!

[fontana]

Years ago I worked for Star Rider and completed their Gold advanced course along with a lot of our instructors. !!!

Wow there's a blast from the past.
Star Rider.
I did my bronze beginners course with one of their instructors in 1982.
I had a brilliant instructor.
His motto was "if in doubt, don't"
He kept on saying that to me throughout the course and those words still ring in my ears to this day.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be here now if not for that.

[Herb]

If you have a discussion you wish to make about the subject in general, start another thread.

You are absolutely right and I apologize.
I'll bow out of this one.

Actually, change of mind. Might as well carry on the discussion here. Other have commented also, so carry on.

[fontana]

Actually, change of mind. Might as well carry on the discussion here. Other have commented also, so carry on.

It's just my experience.
I have a problem with this word "advanced"
It denotes superiority, and is utter BS.
I am all for improving one's riding skills.
I've done so myself, with a guy called Mike Waite, who's retired now.
Ex Police rider and instructor.

http://www.mikewaite.co.uk/about/

[Britisherspy]

One example - most of my 'mates' are all waay faster than me on the road - take far more risks and so on, three figures everywhere.

But - most of them approach and ride through roundabouts like a car driver - all the way round the appropriate lane - instead of the shortest route across.

Just little stuff like this can make you quicker over the same ground. And once you have been training for long enough - it all becomes second nature - not speeding in the 30, 40's etc - looking so far ahead you don't need your brakes to slow down for a village or a red light you've seen across a valley road.

Its not all about speed or progress either - I've taken around 10 months to take and then pass my ROSPA , I could have taken and passed the test sooner but I wanted to be the best I could- and I am proud that I got a gold as well but passing the test wasn't what I set out to do - it was to ride with some different people, learn how to protect my license and still have fun (in the NSL) and once I'd been out for a demo ride with the 'boss' I had serious second thoughts about it. I wasn't sure I wanted to do it - it seemed very hard work and his abilities were so far ahead of where I was (and I'm no slow cautious rider believe me) I knew if I took this on he was the kind of person you did not want to disappoint - a real leader and someone to look up to.

Best thing I've done since passing my test 10 years ago.