I know no magazine write up yet and more important no test rides so far either,but what do you guys think about the new S soo far?
Are you happy that BMW decided to ditch the jack of all trades philosophy and go no compromise following the Zeitgeist or Mantra that says a "real" sportbike has to be uncomfortable and impractical like the jap. and italian offerings?Or do you miss he practicality and ability to go two up or on trips with your stuff secure and dry in optional hardbags?I have decided to keep the old one because as much as I like the additional 24 ponies and maybe 20Kg less the loss of two up and touring ability would be for me greater than the gains in the performance department if the engine really delivers as also the handling as good or better than the old bike.I'm kind of disappointed that BMW ditched the options that always made a BMW different from the rest and also put a even smaller tank on it instead of making it a little (22-24 litres) bigger.I say bloody nose for this boxer,unfortunately,because I would have liked it a lot otherwise...
R1200S - Knockout or bloody nose ?!
Moderators: Gromit, Paul, slparry
Re: R1200S - Knockout or bloody nose ?!
BMW-Fahrer wrote:......................additional 24 ponies and maybe 20Kg less the loss of two up..............
Don't forget that all new BMW power figures are taken using high octane fuel. Octane at a level that is difficult (if not impossible) to get in the UK. In the real world, the power difference is nowhere near that.
As far as the weight saving is concerned, if you want to forego the second seat, then it is not difficult to lose a large proportion of that 20kgs. Certainly the cost of getting serious weight reductions will be less than the costs of changing bike and depreciation on the new one. In any event I am told that the actual weight of the 1200GS is not the same as the 'spin', so perhaps the R1200S will not actually be as svelte as the claims.
Get your carbon fibre here!!!!
sandbar (the luddite)
I say tart the old S up a bit, bit of a diet for me and the bike added to a bit of engine work should keep the pesky upstart at bay 
LeMans is a goer for the 24 hours 4 me and Chris (and spouses
)
LeMans is a goer for the 24 hours 4 me and Chris (and spouses
)Lloyd
It's not how fast you ride, it's how you ride fast.
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear
bright until you hear them speak.
It's not how fast you ride, it's how you ride fast.
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear
bright until you hear them speak.
I reckon with the new S that BMW have somewhat entered the Lion's den. The bike doesn't have the charisma of a Ducati, nor the racing heritage to carry it off. Even if it's a blinding bike to ride (ie up with a triple-9 for example, which I doubt) your average Joe Bloggs sportsbike owner, who's got a bit of wedge, ain't going to give it a second look.
The great thing about the 11 is that it's so damn useful whilst the new one's capabilities will be matched, and often bettered, by other bikes.
The great thing about the 11 is that it's so damn useful whilst the new one's capabilities will be matched, and often bettered, by other bikes.
I also think they have made a mistake with the new S. I agree that they have lost a lot of the practicality of the old one, and won't be able to compete on sporting levels within its target sector. While they are feeling a little bit adventurous on a design level as shown with the new Ks, why don't they go the whole hog and build a V twin and beat the opposition at their own game.
Watching you Focker!
IMHO the mistake they made was with the ST. That was supposed to be the sports tourer. Most potential customers are apparently looking at it and saying "no wucking fay"!
Lets be honest it is not only the front that is 'controversial' - what on earth is that tailpiece all about?
If you plan your sports tourer like that and then make the new S much more sporty, where are the more touring guys going to go.
If the ST was more saleable, then the R1200S (in perhaps a lower volume) makes a lot of sense. Particularly if they decide to do another BoxerCup series to promote it.
sandbar
Lets be honest it is not only the front that is 'controversial' - what on earth is that tailpiece all about?
If you plan your sports tourer like that and then make the new S much more sporty, where are the more touring guys going to go.
If the ST was more saleable, then the R1200S (in perhaps a lower volume) makes a lot of sense. Particularly if they decide to do another BoxerCup series to promote it.
sandbar
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BMW-Fahrer
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It's nice to see that you guys seem to feel the same way and BMW might come to their senses!When you look at the S tradition,R90S and R1100S,they were sensible sportbikes.Maybe giving up 20% of theoretical track performance but beating the offering from italy and japan by 100% real world usability being able to ride that thing on trips,with gear dry and secure and even two up.The old S as good as it is,all it needed was a bigger tank and a little more (20hp) on top to be close to perfect.No we got the power and let's say 10-15Kg real weight impovement but who called for solo only and no optional bags?!By going only on performance against Mille,999,R6,R1 the bike looses a lot of appeal which otherwise could have been the best sport-tourer period;if it lives up to the hype...
But I guess the ST was supposed to be this bike;slow sales say it's not.R-RS owners miss the comfort,bigger tank and underseat storage of their bikes,R11S owners miss the top handling and still gorgeous looks.Too bad that they have now one sport-tourer that could have been much more and one desireable bike but unfortunately as useless/impractical/single minded as any sportster from italy or japan...
I'll keep my old one and try not to think what could have been even if I liked the new motor in the R12ST a lot...
Two bloody noses,maybe the next round...
But I guess the ST was supposed to be this bike;slow sales say it's not.R-RS owners miss the comfort,bigger tank and underseat storage of their bikes,R11S owners miss the top handling and still gorgeous looks.Too bad that they have now one sport-tourer that could have been much more and one desireable bike but unfortunately as useless/impractical/single minded as any sportster from italy or japan...
I'll keep my old one and try not to think what could have been even if I liked the new motor in the R12ST a lot...
Two bloody noses,maybe the next round...
This is alwyas an interesting topic which does throw up arguments from both side of the fence. The question is - who will buy it?
Let's face it, the folk who'll be more likely to buy the new bike are the good people of forums like this one. Ask yourself the question - 'Would I like to buy the new 1200S?' well the answer from where I'm sitting is I'd say 80-20 in the favour of 'no'. I can't see the new bike really getting much in the way of sales from the guy who'd rather be in a Ducati/Aprilia showroom.
9 big ones for a sportsbike which doesn't even come with multi-adjustable suspenders (for example) is just too much money imo. With the Ohlins etc it's going to be hellishly expensive. If I was looking to buy a twin-cylinder machine with performance very near the top of my list of priorities, I'd get a Ducati.
I'd agree with Sandbar with reference to the ST - BMW dropped a bollock over that one. There's 'quirky' styling, and then there's 'what the f*ck's all that about?' styling...
In principle, I like the idea of the ST, it's just that the execution is a tad wide of the mark.
Let's face it, the folk who'll be more likely to buy the new bike are the good people of forums like this one. Ask yourself the question - 'Would I like to buy the new 1200S?' well the answer from where I'm sitting is I'd say 80-20 in the favour of 'no'. I can't see the new bike really getting much in the way of sales from the guy who'd rather be in a Ducati/Aprilia showroom.
9 big ones for a sportsbike which doesn't even come with multi-adjustable suspenders (for example) is just too much money imo. With the Ohlins etc it's going to be hellishly expensive. If I was looking to buy a twin-cylinder machine with performance very near the top of my list of priorities, I'd get a Ducati.
I'd agree with Sandbar with reference to the ST - BMW dropped a bollock over that one. There's 'quirky' styling, and then there's 'what the f*ck's all that about?' styling...
In principle, I like the idea of the ST, it's just that the execution is a tad wide of the mark.
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BMW-Fahrer
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Sandbar,I guess that we have to stone you now...
At least the Boxercup solo only no trips with stuff in hardbag types have a reason to be happy.
But according to my uneducated guess,it will be the minority as I can't see 916/999/Mille riders making up for the lost R11S sport-touring folks;But then I could be wrong and as always tme will tell and hopefully heal all wounds...
At least the Boxercup solo only no trips with stuff in hardbag types have a reason to be happy.
But according to my uneducated guess,it will be the minority as I can't see 916/999/Mille riders making up for the lost R11S sport-touring folks;But then I could be wrong and as always tme will tell and hopefully heal all wounds...
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BMW-Fahrer
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:17 am
Gromit,did not see your post but agree.To go head on in the supersport class just on the merits of sportness is suicide...
It would have taken nothing away from the bike but made it much more attractive if the only flaw f the old S would have been fixed with a 22-24 litre tank.If people like a 999 styled solo seat and don't like hard bags great/bedrollrack,great but at least offer the option instead of alienating 75% ? of it's customer base only to appease and gain some cred with the magazine folks who ride the bikes for a week and give them back afterwards and don't live with them...
How the same guy (yank-Robb) who created the R11S came up with the looks of the ST is bejond me but even this would be the deal breaker if that thing would handle as good as as fun to ride as the S,even if the ST is a lot faster in a straight line...I guess too much to ask for in 7 years development but at least the headlight is bright...
It would have taken nothing away from the bike but made it much more attractive if the only flaw f the old S would have been fixed with a 22-24 litre tank.If people like a 999 styled solo seat and don't like hard bags great/bedrollrack,great but at least offer the option instead of alienating 75% ? of it's customer base only to appease and gain some cred with the magazine folks who ride the bikes for a week and give them back afterwards and don't live with them...
How the same guy (yank-Robb) who created the R11S came up with the looks of the ST is bejond me but even this would be the deal breaker if that thing would handle as good as as fun to ride as the S,even if the ST is a lot faster in a straight line...I guess too much to ask for in 7 years development but at least the headlight is bright...
BMW-Fahrer wrote:At least the Boxercup solo only no trips with stuff in hardbag types have a reason to be happy.
Exactly!!!
But seriously, I think we need to wait a bit. All we have seen is the basic R1200S with a couple of options. There may be more to the model. Who knows - BMW don't seem to!!
sandbar
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