Throttle return spring

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crucial
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Throttle return spring

Postby crucial » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:08 pm

The left one snapped on the way home the other night. I was on the motorway doing about 80mph, when I shut the throttle it was like riding a single as the left throttle was open at about 4k revs :shock:

I can now confirm that a bungee cord can be used as a return spring, however you need 2 hands to open the throttle :D (now moved on to the more technially advanced elastic bands method)

Bmw in their infinite wisdom don't sell the spring separately, you're expected to buy the whole throttle body :shock: Luckily Darren at Motorworks is sorting me out a second hand one. :D

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Jason M
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Re: Throttle return spring

Postby Jason M » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:14 pm

crucial wrote:The left one snapped on the way home the other night. I was on the motorway doing about 80mph, when I shut the throttle it was like riding a single as the left throttle was open at about 4k revs :shock:

I can now confirm that a bungee cord can be used as a return spring, however you need 2 hands to open the throttle :D (now moved on to the more technially advanced elastic bands method)

Bmw in their infinite wisdom don't sell the spring separately, you're expected to buy the whole throttle body :shock: Luckily Darren at Motorworks is sorting me out a second hand one. :D


Ditto - EXACTLY the same thing happened to me a couple of months ago - failed wide open heading towards the back of a bus. It was dark so I pulled the left plug lead and drove home on 1 cylinder. I had Daren send me one too - I can't imagine why they don't sell it seperately.

When you change it over MAKE SURE you mark EXACTLY where the TPS is locked (I didn't!) cos you'll need to remove and replace it to get the throttle body gubbins appart and it wont run properly (mine doesn't) unless you put it back in the same spot :wink:

Jason

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adamski49
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Postby adamski49 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:35 pm

I watched my local spannerman adjust my TPS unit to 0.385 (not sure of units, Volts maybe) using a multimeter. Basically he stuck the positive into one of the connectors (possibly Pin 1) and the other to the bikes earth and twisted it until the above reading was met.

Bike seems to run fine but it was only 0.335 before he twiddled.

I think he found the info on the net somewhere and it's all to do with height above sea level and other anorak things that went way over my head.

Basically, all is not lost if you lose the TPS setting.

Jason - If you want I'll ask him for more details on the ferry on Saturday. If you can't wait until I get back, PM me your mobile No. and I'll text it from the boat.

Adam :)
Forgive me father for I have sinned... ex S owner moved onto pastures new with four cylinders and a chain... and back to a twin, albeit in a V.

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crucial
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Postby crucial » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:51 pm

So it's not just me then :) I was actually quite relieved when I found what it was, it felt alot more serious :shock:


Thanks chaps, I already know how to set the TPS, been there etc....... I downloaded the instructions when I did it a couple of years ago.................now where did I put that file :?

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Postby crucial » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:02 pm

For all the insomniacs out there :wink:

I think the procedure is thus.


Procedure (reference BMW or Haynes manual for location of components):
1. Generously loosen the free play at the throttle cables to both left and
right throttle bodies (note '96 and newer "Oilheads" have a different
throttle cable mechanism--see manuals)

2. Unscrew the left throttle body throttle stop screw (under and inside of
the throttle body) counterclockwise (CCW) about three turns or until you can
see a gap between the end of the stop screw and the flange it pushes on to
open the throttle. You are now assured the left throttle is FULLY closed.
This is important! ("Zero" throttle opening).

3. Attach the Digital Voltmeter (DVM) black lead to frame ground and the red
lead to the red/white wire going to the TPS connector located on the left
cylinder throttle body. The TPS is a black plastic 2" by 2" square module
with a connector on the bottom. Gently pulling the rubber connector boot
down will expose the four wires entering the connector to the TPS. Probing
and pushing up with a paper clip is one method of reaching the red/white
wire's contacts. Put the DVM red lead on the paper clip, turn on the
ignition and engine cutoff switch, and retract the sidestand. You should see
an indication on the DVM near zero. Be SURE you are on the DC Volts
selection.

4. Loosen the two Allen head screws securing the TPS. Adjust the TPS by
slowly turning it within its slots until the observed voltage decreases to
about .006 DC volts. It will probably go no lower, which is OK. DO NOT turn
it any more as the wiper of the pot has already reached the end of
electrical travel. Stop turning the TPS just when the voltage stops
decreasing and then turn it in the opposite direction to increase the DVM by
.004. Lock it down there. Going slightly up by .004 volts will ensure your
are not going "below" zero volts and this will typically result in a "zero"
value of .010 volts. Be careful of DVMs which "autorange" and can confuse
readings! ("Zero" TPS voltage .006 +.004 volts = .010)

5. With "Zero = Zero" set (zero throttle plate opening and zero voltage),
turn the left throttle body stop screw clockwise (CW) until the voltage
starts to rise. Continue turning until you reach .370 - .400 volts, the
voltage the BMW analyzer looks for the TPS at idle to cause a digital signal
to "flop" or change symbology. Lock down the stop screw with the jam nut if
so equipped (early units are an interference fit). Blip the throttle several
times to check accuracy and repeatability of the voltage to be within .370 -
.400 volts. Readjust the stopscrew (not TPS Allen screws!) if needed.
Following this, reset the left throttle cable free play to .5mm. Now you are
forever done with the TPS adjustment.

6. Connect the mercury or electronic manometer to both throttle bodies.
Prior to starting the engine, use a common screwdriver to lightly close both
rear-facing brass air bypass screws on the throttle bodies, then open them
to:


R1100 RS/RT: 1 1/2 turns from closed
R1100 GS/R: 2 1/4 turns from closed
R850R: 2 1/4 turns from closed
Start and warm up the engine to get 5 bars on the RID oil temperature if so
equipped. Idle will be rough due to the need to synchronize left to right
throttle bodies. Use a big rear-facing fan from the front of the bike to
control cooling, if required.

7. After warm up, LEAVE THE LEFT STOP SCREW ALONE! (The one used to set
.370- .400 volts). Adjust the right throttle body stop screw to get
perfectly equal mercury in both columns or electronic indication.

8. Adjust the right throttle body cable for equal mercury readings at just
off idle, around 1500 RPM. Use the throttle to increase RPM, not the "choke"
start lever when synching.

9. Finally, adjust both brass bypass screws individually or together in
conjunction with the manometer to yield a proper idle speed of 1000-1100 rpm
and equal mercury or vacuum readings. Closing the bypass screws will
decrease RPM; converse for opening them. On rare occasions where proper idle
speed cannot be set with the bypass screws, return to step 5 and
incrementally increase or decrease the stop screw voltage from the .370 -
.400 setting then repeat subsequent steps. Raising the stop screw voltage
will increase idle RPM and decreasing it will lower idle RPM.

10. Inspect your work and test ride, perhaps re-performing synch using ONLY
the bypass screws and right throttle cable to "fine tune."

Summary:
The TPS was set for zero volts at zero throttle plate opening (+.004 volts
to assure not going "low"). Then the left throttle body TPS was set using
the stop screw to .370 - .400 volts followed by an accurate synch of the
right throttle body.

Results:
This is a simple procedure and it has worked on countless "Oilhead" BMWs.
You will notice good throttle response, best possible fuel consumption,
little if any surging and good top end. Properly performed, emissions are
unaffected if not improved.

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Jason M
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Postby Jason M » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:02 pm

Thinking about it I was probably pretty stupid to dismantle the whole thing anyway - I guess you could just thread the new spring over the shaft, like putting a key on a keyring, then you'd not need to dismantle anything

Chears for the info. I'm off on a trip soon so I'll leave it till I get back I think

Adam - enjoy your holiday :wink:

Jason

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crucial
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Postby crucial » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:33 am

Jason, I did mine yesterday but I think dismantling is the way to go. It would be very difficult (if not impossible) to thread the spring on IMHO :)

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nab 301
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Postby nab 301 » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:32 pm

Are these spring failures a total act of randomness , or what sort of mileage do they occur at.?
Nigel B
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1999 R1100s (mandarin) '
2018 DL 250V Strom
2019 CB125F Honda.
MZ301 Saxon Fun ( currently retired)
'03 Bullet 65 project..

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Postby crucial » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:29 am

Mine went at 82k, i believe Jason's bike is over 100k.

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Jason M
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Postby Jason M » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:18 am

crucial wrote:Mine went at 82k, i believe Jason's bike is over 100k.


Yep - mine went at about 115k or summit. TBH I think I may have adjusted the throttles too tight as the left was 'tapping' when the engine was cold - I think they warn you about it in the manual somewhere. Might have been a contributary factor in my case

Jason

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crucial
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Postby crucial » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:34 pm

Mine went because I was saying to someone only last week, that i'd never even had a throttle cable snap in 80k :roll: Should have kept me big gob shut :wink:

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Postby nab 301 » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:51 pm

crucial wrote:Mine went because I was saying to someone only last week, that i'd never even had a throttle cable snap in 80k :roll: Should have kept me big gob shut :wink:



Maybe I'll put a few elastic bands in my tool kit just in case. (i've only 36k on my bike)
Nigel B
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1999 R1100s (mandarin) '
2018 DL 250V Strom
2019 CB125F Honda.
MZ301 Saxon Fun ( currently retired)
'03 Bullet 65 project..

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oyster
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Postby oyster » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:45 pm

Interesting thread this! After a ride through some ancient Kentish lanes, I had some spare time back home and did the throttle sync shown above. Couple of points for others following this ; post 1996 R s have different throttle cable system to earlier models; the Twinmax hoses are 1. a bit too short; 2. a bit too large in the bore. When I, with great excitement, checked the throttles a few months back with my discounted purchase, everything seemed spot-on. Today, I did the whole lot; zero-zero and on. The stretched twinmax hoses will leak, as witnessed by the chuffing noise! :shock: I used some high quality fuel hose of the correct size for the stubs and a ribbed joint piece to get it to work gas-tight. Now on max sensitivity, the needle bounces about two units across the zero. That's as good as I could get it to settle. AND the stub caps had deteriorated as someone else mentioned a few weeks back. Although the vacuum will tend to seal these caps, it would be a good idea to check and replace if they have cracked/split. Next test ride will have to wait a few days.
Oyster. 1999 R1100S. Almost original.


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