Final drive nightmare

[f90x]

So before I even took my bike for the FD recall I knew that the flange was loose. I didn't have a pair of circlip removers big enough but I knew that I'd be able to pull the flange off without any duress. I dropped it at Bahnstormers in Maidenhead at the weekend and today they have sent me this video showing what I already knew plus a bit more info. Now, firstly I am very surprised that the flange has become so loose but also that the steel splines have worn so much (the flange is alloy of course and the FD hub being steel) The really bad news of course is that the FD (the splined bit) needs replacing. The price for all this. (Sit down please) £1350!!! The splined thingy on its own is £1200. The thing is I can't find anyone online who has experienced this and at 20k miles I am gobsmacked that it has happend. I don't ride clumsily and can get 15k+ out of a chain and sprockets. The service guy was also surprised at this 'wear' at such a low mileage. I got the feeling he'd never even seen such a thing. What do you rate my chances of getting Bmw to cover some of the cost? Check out the video

https://video.citnow.com/vt8HdhkkygH

[Herb]

WTF!

When you said the splines were worn I thought you mean on the input shaft, not the bit that holds the wheel on.

That is clearly not right, and given that your rear wheel was only being held on by a circlip, I would be making a very big noise indeed!

It seems to me that that is a critical safety issue which warrants investigation by the authorities, regardless of what BMW do or don't offer.

[Blackal]

A fella on UKGSer came up with the theory that the high-compression 1200 engine threw bigger pulses into the drive-train, resulting in failed final drives.... I have to say - it seemed plausible.

Not seen that particular failure on any other bikes (and internet forums are good at documenting failures).

I'd recommend an approach to BMW for a goodwill repair/renewal, as I'm not sure that a broadside would work.

Good luck, anyway - and keep us updated?

Al

[popsky]

I'm with Herb on that Steve, it's a pressed on part which needs heat to remove so how can it be that loose

There is this on eBay at the moment


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231923633308

[Herb]

You might need to explain cause and effect to BMW. If the splines are worn, it's likely because the flange has always been loose, allowing the splines to fret and wear. (Unless it's been apart before and not correctly handled?. I wonder if it's been stripped before to repair a previous issue with the final drive. Ask BMW for the history). They seem to be implying the opposite, that it's loose because of wear.

This should be an interference fit, and is not a wear item, unlike the sliding fit on other splined joints where you might expect to see signs of use.

A firm word with the dealer / BMW is in order. Make it clear that you consider this a safety critical failure and you will be raising the issue with the DVLA. They have a process for exactly this kind of failure and will investigate on your behalf. I think I would do that regardless. This is a worrying failure on a part that has already been subjected to one safety related recall action.

[f90x]

I'm with Herb on that Steve, it's a pressed on part which needs heat to remove so how can it be that loose

There is this on eBay at the moment


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231923633308

This is the thing Phil, as you say it shouldn't ever come loose. It's either on or it's off or it disintegrates like a couple I've seen on the internet from this crack that necessitates the recall. Also it was fine last MOT time and I've only done 3.5k since then. 3k of it mostly French motorway.

I'm already on that used FD thanks. I'm waiting for some confirmation of it's 6k mileage. If it's not a typo I'll have it. Even if BMW do a goodwill deal it's still going to be much much more than £200. I may as well just get this and be done with it. I was going to do that rubber grommet at the end of the summer myself but seeing as it's all on their table now I may as well get them to do that as well. Jesus, BMW is costing me at the moment. I've only just spent the best part of £1500 on my car!

[f90x]

A fella on UKGSer came up with the theory that the high-compression 1200 engine threw bigger pulses into the drive-train, resulting in failed final drives.... I have to say - it seemed plausible.

Not seen that particular failure on any other bikes (and internet forums are good at documenting failures). Exactly, I have searched high and low and found absolutely nothing

I'd recommend an approach to BMW for a goodwill repair/renewal, as I'm not sure that a broadside would work. I shall be speaking to them in the morning but I'm sure it will take time and won't be anywhere near the price of the used one on ebay

Good luck, anyway - and keep us updated?

Al

[nicholsonj2252]

I'm with Herb on that Steve, it's a pressed on part which needs heat to remove so how can it be that loose

There is this on eBay at the moment


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231923633308

This is the thing Phil, as you say it shouldn't ever come loose. It's either on or it's off or it disintegrates like a couple I've seen on the internet from this crack that necessitates the recall. Also it was fine last MOT time and I've only done 3.5k since then. 3k of it mostly French motorway.

I'm already on that used FD thanks. I'm waiting for some confirmation of it's 6k mileage. If it's not a typo I'll have it. Even if BMW do a goodwill deal it's still going to be much much more than £200. I may as well just get this and be done with it. I was going to do that rubber grommet at the end of the summer myself but seeing as it's all on their table now I may as well get them to do that as well. Jesus, BMW is costing me at the moment. I've only just spent the best part of £1500 on my car!

Hi - just spoken to a good friend who is a service manager for BMW - he thinks BMW will cover this issue 100% so I think you should follow that route

[f90x]

You might need to explain cause and effect to BMW. If the splines are worn, it's likely because the flange has always been loose, allowing the splines to fret and wear. (Unless it's been apart before and not correctly handled?. I wonder if it's been stripped before to repair a previous issue with the final drive. Ask BMW for the history). They seem to be implying the opposite, that it's loose because of wear. It's at 20k now and I bought it with 6k on it. TBH I think I felt it be a 'little' loose last year just before I went to France on it but the MOT man said no problem. He pulled me up on it this time though.

This should be an interference fit, and is not a wear item, unlike the sliding fit on other splined joints where you might expect to see signs of use. Yes, the thing should not be moving at all.

A firm word with the dealer / BMW is in order. Make it clear that you consider this a safety critical failure and you will be raising the issue with the DVLA. They have a process for exactly this kind of failure and will investigate on your behalf. I think I would do that regardless. This is a worrying failure on a part that has already been subjected to one safety related recall action.

I will be having a conversation with them in the morning

[f90x]

I'm with Herb on that Steve, it's a pressed on part which needs heat to remove so how can it be that loose

There is this on eBay at the moment


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231923633308

This is the thing Phil, as you say it shouldn't ever come loose. It's either on or it's off or it disintegrates like a couple I've seen on the internet from this crack that necessitates the recall. Also it was fine last MOT time and I've only done 3.5k since then. 3k of it mostly French motorway.

I'm already on that used FD thanks. I'm waiting for some confirmation of it's 6k mileage. If it's not a typo I'll have it. Even if BMW do a goodwill deal it's still going to be much much more than £200. I may as well just get this and be done with it. I was going to do that rubber grommet at the end of the summer myself but seeing as it's all on their table now I may as well get them to do that as well. Jesus, BMW is costing me at the moment. I've only just spent the best part of £1500 on my car!

Hi - just spoken to a good friend who is a service manager for BMW - he thinks BMW will cover this issue 100% so I think you should follow that route

That's interesting. Thanks a lot. I will be chatting with them in the morning. The guy I spoke to briefly today did actually sound a bit nervous when I mentioned that one would usually have to heat it up or use a press to remove it and it's only done 20k.

[popsky]

Hi Steve, if you do go for the one on eBay the question I would ask is why the original flange has been removed ? Was it loose if you get my thinking, hopefully a word with BMW will get you a satisfactory response, fingers crossed for you

[f90x]

Hi Steve, if you do go for the one on eBay the question I would ask is why the original flange has been removed ? Was it loose if you get my thinking, hopefully a word with BMW will get you a satisfactory response, fingers crossed for you

Cheers Phil.

That was one of my questions along with 'does the bearing move or grumble and how does he know the mileage'

The splines on the eBay item look to be in good nick though.

[f90x]

So, I got a reply from Mike Overy who runs 'Overland and Classic' (FD rebuild expert) tonight and he says that he's seen a few like this. He feels that the replacement 'steel' version should be a lot tighter. I gather that those that he has seen are on GS's of significant mileage.

I'm going to stress the 'danger' aspect of the fault with BMW tomorrow but I feel I might not make much headway. It'll be just another one of those things that we the consumer are expected to shell out for when it fails.

I shall keep you informed.

[gus]

Hi
Buy the eBay item and take it to have a steel flange fitted through the recall. I can't see BMW covering a new final drive or rebuild. They MAY offer a small reduction in the parts cost. I would not hold my breath though.
All the best
Gus

[f90x]

Turns out its £1200 for the entire drive as the splined part is not available as a separate item. BMW so far are not willing to do anything for me.