Rough running R12S

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Great Britain
victorlaszlo
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm
Location: London

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby victorlaszlo » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:36 pm

I don't think it has anything to do with the cables, the rubber pieces are in good condition and no visible cracks anywhere. Also there is good play in the cables, but I noted something else which seems strange and I've posted a video of it here:

https://youtu.be/FbCqrdXEito

Not sure if this is a problem or as it should be.

The revving issue is present occasionally also when starting up, ie you press the ignition button, no throttle, engine starts, revs up to say 2000 rpm, slows down jumps up revs at 1800 before which, sometimes after a blip on the throttle, it goes down to 1150ish...

:oops:

Australia
Justcruising
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:33 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby Justcruising » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:39 am

I go back to my earlier suggestion of doing a recalibration of the Idle Actuators (IA) using a GS-911 or similar, see if mechanic did this simple operation or can. May also be an intermittent problem with an IA. Also, the staggered idle down from cold start, seems inherent. Your YouTube clip seems to demonstrate play at one of the Bowden cable adjusters at a throttle body (if I recognise this correctly) BUT I recall this play does not occur during normal operation ... would need to investigate further on mine! Will have a closer look at mine when back home tomorrow.

Btw, your issue is not unheard of. See similar discussions here http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/501682-12s-engine-dies.html and others if you search!

One last thought, are you using premium unleaded fuel (RON 98 where i am) and personally I would avoid any ethanol blends.
2006 R1200S (Red/Silver) - Michelin PR4s, Akrapovic slip-on silencer, Ohlin suspension, Ilmberger Carbon hugger & Carbon valve-covers, Corbin seat.

2010 R1200R
2004 R1200C Montauk

Great Britain
victorlaszlo
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm
Location: London

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby victorlaszlo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:19 am

I think air leak can be excluded as if I turn the ignition off or blip the throttle it goes back to normal, an air leak would still be present. Also, yesterday I sprayed butan gas around throttle bodies and airbox with no pick up in revs, so hopefully not this.

Someone on pelican parts mentioned idle actuator stopper / motors which can get stuck. Because the motors run through a cycle when ignition is switched on this exercise normally fixes it until next time. To remove these for inspection, is it as simple as unscrewing the safety torx on top of the TBS and pull them out?

Cheers Victor

Australia
Justcruising
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:33 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby Justcruising » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:33 am

I’ve only ever run the IA calibration function with a GS-911 and have not had a need to remove, dismantle or service an IA, although I recall reading threads of this done ... will see if I can locate. This link might help with understanding the IA issue http://www.hexcode.co.za/techinfo/iac .

Btw, I could not replicate quite the extent of play at one of the Bowden cable adjusters at a throttle body you demonstrated in your YouTube clip (if I recognise this correctly) BUT I don’t think it would come into play without your interference. Can always recheck with your mechanic.
2006 R1200S (Red/Silver) - Michelin PR4s, Akrapovic slip-on silencer, Ohlin suspension, Ilmberger Carbon hugger & Carbon valve-covers, Corbin seat.

2010 R1200R
2004 R1200C Montauk

England
ted
Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:56 am
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby ted » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:12 pm

Sometimes its the simple things that can lead us down many false paths - i once swapped my plugs for top of the range iridium ones. Less than a year later i started with troubles similar to what you describe, against all my instincts but not wanting to start replacing coils etc, i changed the plugs even though i thought it wouldn't be them - yes, the faults were gone - i would try with a full set of new plugs - you might be surprised. Even the threads are knackered you may as well sort it once and for all

Great Britain
victorlaszlo
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm
Location: London

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby victorlaszlo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am

ted wrote:Sometimes its the simple things that can lead us down many false paths - i once swapped my plugs for top of the range iridium ones. Less than a year later i started with troubles similar to what you describe, against all my instincts but not wanting to start replacing coils etc, i changed the plugs even though i thought it wouldn't be them - yes, the faults were gone - i would try with a full set of new plugs - you might be surprised. Even the threads are knackered you may as well sort it once and for all


Actually received them a couple of days ago, change scheduled for today :)

Great Britain
victorlaszlo
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm
Location: London

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby victorlaszlo » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:16 pm

victorlaszlo wrote:
ted wrote:Sometimes its the simple things that can lead us down many false paths - i once swapped my plugs for top of the range iridium ones. Less than a year later i started with troubles similar to what you describe, against all my instincts but not wanting to start replacing coils etc, i changed the plugs even though i thought it wouldn't be them - yes, the faults were gone - i would try with a full set of new plugs - you might be surprised. Even the threads are knackered you may as well sort it once and for all


Actually received them a couple of days ago, change scheduled for today :)


New plugs installed, no major difference, possibly slightly improved but still getting the 1.5 cylinder running feeling at idle, and some sticky high idling now and then. The engine has only cut out occasionally as well which is good but would like to sort this out properly.

Also filled up with 98 octane.

If it is indeed sticky throttle actuators (marked in green, not sure about terminology), is it as simple to remove them (torx in red), visually inspect and possibly clean?

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Australia
Justcruising
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:33 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby Justcruising » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:40 am

In the absence of anyone with more experience chiming in ... yes that’s the IA’s & although I haven’t serviced them myself I recall reading at least one thread somewhere of someone successfully opening & servicing them ... have been unable to locate the post. More research here, Pelican Parts & google might uncover more for you.

That torx screw would be the starting point for removal of the IA. Depending on the extent to which you can open them up & witness their operation with ignition switch on (be careful here, if they now have no stop) i’d Be looking to spray them clean with something like electronic contact cleaner, followed by potentially a light spray of silicone lubricant IF it appears suitable & likely to help.

Unfortunately without a GS-911 or similar, you might be limited to the above & unable to do a calibration. Let us know how you go if you go ahead. Good luck!
Last edited by Justcruising on Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
2006 R1200S (Red/Silver) - Michelin PR4s, Akrapovic slip-on silencer, Ohlin suspension, Ilmberger Carbon hugger & Carbon valve-covers, Corbin seat.

2010 R1200R
2004 R1200C Montauk

Great Britain
victorlaszlo
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm
Location: London

Re: Rough running R12S

Postby victorlaszlo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:05 pm

Hi there,

Thanks for the reply, that's really useful. It seems as if the IAs from the R12S is only shared with later K12S's but I'm not 100% sure on this.

The torx screw holding them is a "safety torx" for which you need a hollow torx bit to remove it so before I do this, is there a reason this part, unlike say the injectors, has been protected by a special screw? Could there be some form of calibration meaning unscrewing it would ruin these settings?

If anyone has an idea then please let me know.

Cheers Victor

Justcruising wrote:Jon, in the absence of anyone with more experience chiming in ... yes that’s the IA’s & although I haven’t serviced them myself I recall reading at least one thread somewhere of someone successfully opening & servicing them ... have been unable to locate the post. More research here, Pelican Parts & google might uncover more for you.

That torx screw would be the starting point for removal of the IA. Depending on the extent to which you can open them up & witness their operation with ignition switch on (be careful here, if they now have no stop) i’d Be looking to spray them clean with something like electronic contact cleaner, followed by potentially a light spray of silicone lubricant IF it appears suitable & likely to help.

Unfortunately without a GS-911 or similar, you might be limited to the above & unable to do a calibration. Let us know how you go if you go ahead. Good luck!


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